Categotry Archives: Northwest

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PAX West Day Three: Skip Your Next Turn

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Age is a terrible drug, children. Rob woke up this morning creaking and cranking with pain all over his body, just from being alive at PAX for two days in a row. He’s been overseeing Nerdhole operations from our Capitol Hill HQ while Paul and Mary have been exploiting their youthful vigor and taking in the sights and sounds of Day Three.

  • Karma was the trippiest thing we’ve seen so far, and it’s sure to give a few of you some hearts and grins just to look at for a while. It’s a point-and-click game, generally not our favorite, but its gentle non-verbal directions and lack of time pressure make it a lovely, low-key experience. It’s won many nods for its art, style, and design and it’s launching this month on Steam. Check out the demo if you like what you see.
  • You can demo 2K’s Carnival Games VR in the atrium near the PAX swag booth. Available 10/28 for PlayStation VR and HTC Vive and eventually for the Oculus, the game itself is pretty straightforward–it’s exactly what it sounds like–but what’s more remarkable is just how pervasive and common VR is now. Last year PAX had a few VR games but this year a good percentage of the Indie Megabooth, as well as many of the AAA booths, were dedicated to VR games. We live in exciting times.
  • At the Indie Megabooth, Mary tried out the charming and extremely pretty Luna. A VR game for the Oculus Rift, Luna is serene, like trimming a bonsai. The textures have a vaguely mid-century feel and a bystander compared the artwork to the illustrations in Dixit. The demo starts with the player connecting stars into constellations which creates various natural items that become usable assets in the next phase. Once the player completes all the constellations, they are presented with a little terrarium-like landscape which they can populate with the items they created. (Check out our Instagram video below for a taste.) You can read more about the full game and story on their website. The game is expected to ship early next year.

  • Mark Taylor was an IT consultant stuck on a long flight playing a game that we love, rymdkapsel, when he thought, “What if somebody made this for VR? … and then made it an RTS? … and for multiplayer?” The result is the Tron-vibey goodness of Korix, one of our favorite games from this year’s Indie Megabooth:14068504_483467131861550_8297772623144320287_oThe RTS aspect feels like a nice blend of old-school Starcraft and tower defense: you’ve got a home base, and you spawn hordes of little rymdkapsel-esque “workers” who travel back and forth collecting resources from a limited number of pools on each level. You then spend those resources to buy defenses (walls, lasers, artillery, and the like, all of which can be repaired and upgraded) and offensive troops (tanks, aircraft, etc., on up to nukes) to take the fight to the relentless stream of enemy creeps.The VR was surprisingly satisfying for this kind of tower-defense tinkering: you’re like a disembodied god floating over the battlefield, using a “gun”/laser pointer to place and modify your defenses across a large grid. The mix of defense types and the large battlefield let you experiment with all sorts of strategies (do you build a maze or a castle? do you fortify a central area or sprawl out across the battlefield?), and that will surely be especially rich in multiplayer, which can be competitive or cooperative.Korix is also a great indie Cinderella story: Mark was working full time in IT and teaching himself Unity on the side. Sony called him up, interested in what he was doing, so he went to the London office and pretty soon they were discussing what he needed to make it happen for PS VR. As Mark says, “Four months ago I was booting server farms, and now I’m at PAX!” Korix arrives on PS4 later this year, and on PC for Vive and Oculus in late 2017. The floor demo is about 10 minutes, enough to play a full two-player coop battle against the AI, and well worth your time if you’re an RTS or TD fan.
  • Virtual desktops strike us as VR frippery, but the glee of one of our nine-year-old henchmen has made us take pause. He was using a Vive to search for Ssundee videos on YouTube (and to dismiss a banner ad for getting a flu shot), which seems like kicking sand in the faces of HTC developers—but wow, did he have fun. You can also modify your virtual “office” extensively, and the developers have plans for encouraging user-generated content, which has the potential for much fun weirdness. If you’re in the VR Village in the Westin, look for these guys behind the giant World War Toons encampment. They’re in town from Palo Alto and super nice and knowledgable, and it’s a great way to get some Vive time without lengthy lines and appointments. (We’re also going to watch for a fun-sounding party game they recommended, Sweet Escape VR.)IMG_9700
  • Speaking of World War Toons, that is definitely one of the essential visuals of this year’s PAX if you haven’t seen it already:

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PAX West, Day Two: Heroes and Villains and Bunnies, Oh My!

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We’re wisely pacing ourselves this year and focusing on a few things instead of trying to do ALL THE THINGS. We hope to continue this trend through the evening and be in good shape again tomorrow (#HangoversofPAXPast.) At any rate here’s what caught our attention today.

  • We sat in on an Acquisitions Incorporated Intern Program orientation session, and were mighty impressed with the efficiency and deadly humor on display. Two AcqInc Career Counselors laid down the law, instructing new D&D players on the basics of gameplay with delightful snark and an amazing video straight from the Ninth Circle of Human Resources. With slogans like “Do Don’t Die” and “Sometimes teamwork means not being on the same team” (that last one ad-libbed by a deft Career Counselor), the interns were well prepped to head out and collect treasure.
  • Mary attended the World of Warcraft: Legion panel, which she’ll write about at greater length later. The mood was jovial, and both the fans and devs had a great time discussing the new content. The biggest news was the announcement of the Legion Companion App, available for iOS and Android. Launching this coming Tuesday, September 6, the app will allow players to complete certain tasks and quests from their phone when they can’t be in Azeroth. This has been a much-requested feature and the room erupted in whoops and applause followed by a lone shout of “THANK YOU!!!!” Check out the trailer below:
  • We passed a group of women in costume, each one a mash-up of a Playboy bunny and a superhero. Mary had some complicated feelings about the costumes: “I had heard that’s a thing and thought it couldn’t possibly be a thing. It’s not that I’m against sexy cosplay at all (my love of nerd burlesque is well-documented) and I absolutely believe everyone should wear whatever makes them happy. But I find it problematic to use such a blatant symbol of the male gaze since it seems to play right into the idea that girls aren’t fans, they’re just dressing up for male attention. It would be great if they were commenting on that terrible trope, but that didn’t seem to be the case.” Feel free to mansplain to Mary in the comments why she’s wrong. (Rob and Paul are pretty sure she’s right.)
  • We demoed a prototype of the Penny Arcade–Lone Shark Games collaboration Thornwatch today—with Paul running the demo!—and had a great time. The last time that we playtested this game was literally in a garage three years ago, and while it was already fun then, it’s really matured into a solid little gem. It’s part board game, part card game, part graphic novel. Play is quick and the learning curve is gentle as you master the deck of one of five members of the Thornwatch, but even crunchier gamers will appreciate the elegant ideas in play here—especially a “momentum” system that melds damage and initiative into a satisfying and constantly shifting back-and-forth. (Fellow fans of PA will of course swoon over the source material.) We exhort you to try the game either at Lone Shark’s sixth-floor booth or (even better) in the Thornwatch freeplay area on the third floor of Olive 8. The Kickstarter has already more than doubled its goal.IMG_9675
  • We made some Xbox One custom controllers the hard way back in the day with non-OEM parts, YouTube videos, and some sharp little arcane plastic tools. This is oh so much cooler.  And yee, look at the Swatch one! Plus, with your gamertag. So ordering.IMG_9653IMG_9657
  • Indie games can take a long and winding road to release, and it’s heartening to see Night in the Woods so close to coming out (“this fall!”) on the PS4 (and PC/Mac/Linux) after its successful Kickstarter way back in 2013. Described at one point as “like Gone Home, in third-person, with talking animals,” Night in the Woods has a kids-book style but with a smart, intricate melancholy to it. You play as a wayward college dropout Mae (yes, a cat), back in her hometown and slowly discovering that something weird is up. Most of the exploration comes through dialogue, and the town is full of well-realized characters (apparently over 60 of them), and your choices affect the path that you take through an 8 to 10 hour story. What a nice weird break amidst the giant Sony presence.
  • We took a look at a few of the PAX 10, and were as impressed as usual. Blockships was a sweet little shmup that is strongly reminiscent of Galaxy Trucker. You start as the core of a starship and then race to collect new components to add to your ship while other folks are doing the same and trying to kill you. They keep it simple with just gun, engine, and power components, but there’s an interesting richness to it because each hit knocks off components that anyone can grab. It’s 10% off on Steam now through 9/9.
  • Splitter Critters, also in the PAX 10, looked a little intimidating until we learned that we were watching a very advanced level. It’s a lovely puzzle game with a unique mechanic—players swipe to split the level and then can shift the pieces to create new configurations. It’s easier to show than describe, so check out the trailer below. We’re psyched that this has been Greenlit on Steam.

(This post has been edited.)

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Episode 59 – Clash Royale and Black Tapes

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The tapes are black, the clash is royale.
The tapes are black, the clash is royale.

It turns out that there are other non-Nerdhole podcasts out there, and some of them may be relevant to your interests. Mary tells us all about Black Tapes, which entertainingly reanimates the corpse of the hoary old “skeptic confronting the supernatural” trope. Paul spoke not too long ago about Clash of Clans, the silly little mobile game that’s reaped millions of dollars per day. Now it’s spawned a sillier, little-r mobile game called Clash Royale. It’s got hooks, and Paul explains them all.

LINKS

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Episode 41 – PAX Recap

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Eldrazi sculpture
[Tap]: Search your library for any number of nerd creatures and place them on the battlefield.
We’ve overcome our exhaustion and tech troubles to post our recap of this year’s PAX Prime. There was a lot to see and do–maybe too much? But we had a great time and are already prepping ourselves for next year.

LINKS

  • Nerdhole PAX Roundup, Day One: Paperback, Antihero, Cards Against Humanity, Brigador
  • Nerdhole PAX Roundup, Day Two: Mech Deck, Dark Echo, Ninja Tag, Tumblestone, From Light, Don’t Starve: Shipwrecked
  • Nerdhole PAX Roundup, Day Three: Lego Dimensions, Minecraft: Story Mode, Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime, Mushroom 11, enfu
  • Nerdhole PAX Roundup, Day Four: Pleasant Dreams, Pit People
  • We have determined that the Mad Max game is in fact available for purchase. We do not recommend that purchase.
  • Rob has no idea where he heard that Indie Megabooth was considering doing its own show. If they are doing so, they’re keeping it quiet for now.
  • Castle Crashers Remastered is free on the Xbone until 9/20 if you own it on the 360.
  • Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime is now available on Xbone for $14.99 (and on Steam for Mac, PC, and Linux).

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PAX Prime 2015, Day Three

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We’ve made it through Day 3! Here’s some of what caught our eyes today:

  • Lego Dimensions
    The LEGO Toypad, left, and the lengthy list of Doctors, right.
    The LEGO Toypad, left, and the lengthy list of Doctors, right.

    We got to spend some quality time with SkyLEGOs LEGO Infinity LEGO’s entry into the buy-a-bunch-of-things-to-put-on-a-thing console genre. The gameplay should be instantly recognizable to any LEGO console fan, and the execution is world-class. E.g., if you’re playing as the Doctor, you can pick literally any Doctor (see above) and any Tardis–and the First Doctor’s Tardis is even in black and white. Smart, like much LEGO console humor. But all that’s beside the point: If you’re a fan of LEGO’s console games and one or more of the IPs involved, it’s going to be impossible to resist the mashups made possible by Lego Dimensions–like who wouldn’t want to watch Batman save Gandalf from falling at the Bridge of Khazad-dûm so that they can go fight Daleks together? And that’s without even getting into Portal, The Simpsons, Jurassic World, et al. This game genre seemingly can’t last forever, but it will for at least one more title.

  • Minecraft: Story Mode

    We were lucky enough to get in quickly on the Minecraft: Story Mode demo this morning, which has turned out to be the longest line at PAX,with a 2+ hour wait–and that’s if you’re lucky enough to catch the line at all when it isn’t capped! You’ll have to measure your own personal Minecraft mania to judge whether it’s worth it (we had a couple of kids with us, so our visit was mandatory), but the demo is pretty great, and definitely as polished as Telltale’s previous PAX outings with The Wolf Among Us and Tales from the Borderlands.
    The demo stitches together a couple scenes from the final game, involving finding a pig named Reuben and navigating a crisis at “Endercon,” and the gameplay is a nice mix of classic Telltale dialog choices (what kind of person are you? where are your loyalties?) and some light action and circumscribed exploration in a convincingly Minecraft environment. (And, but of course, there’s even some crafting.) As a bonus, if you played the demo as a male character and were like, “Hey, am I Patton Oswalt?” you were right!
  • Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime

    This peppy little indie game made the PAX 10 two years ago (and it’s the second beneficiary of The Behemoth’s Gold Egg Project), but somehow it’s escaped us every year. This PAX, we finally logged some time piloting our lovers (two little space bunnies, in this case) and wow, is it fun. A two-person couch co-op game at heart (although you can play solo with an AI), Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime has you and a pal sharing the controls of a slowly floating spacecraft bristling with weapons and gadgetry. You’re being attacked from all sides as you navigate large, obstacle-strewn levels, but the trick is that your bunnies are running around your small craft between all the individual control panels. So, for example, one player might be steering the ship while the other is firing one of the turrets, and you have to constantly swap around as the threats outside keep changing. The game also keeps switching things up, with six ship layouts and four campaigns–each with four randomly generated levels and a boss battle. The best news of all: it is a glorious spacetime for Xbox One owners, with the game arriving there (and on Steam, for Mac and PC) on September 9.
  • Mushroom 11

    Trying to describe the gameplay of Mushroom 11 is difficult: you’re pushing a mass of self-replicating slime through a maze of different obstacles by erasing carefully selected parts of it to force further replication… you can see why this might be hard. But the conceit is so novel and the play is so uncannily satisfying that it’s a game like no other–definitely a must-play if you’re touring the Indie Megabooth. The original concept came from a wife-and-husband team (Julia Keren-Detar and Itay Keren) at Global Game Jam 2012, and this was their take on the jam’s Ouroboros theme. The initial idea came quickly (coded in just 10 hours), but the pair teamed up with another couple (artist Simon Kono and producer Kara Kono) and spent a year and half getting the feel, physics, and camera angle just right. The effort shows. Get it on Steam now, or watch for it next year on iOS and Android when everyone will be talking about it. It’s going to be an amazing fit for touch controls.
  • enfu
    Detail from the cover of enfu's book, Cute Grit.
    Detail from the cover of enfu’s book, Cute Grit.

    We’re always stoked to see Seattle artist enfu at events, and this year he’s signing copies of his book, Cute Grit, and other swag at the Penny Arcade merch booth. He’ll be back again tomorrow, Monday, from noon–2 pm. Ask him about his new pin project!

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PAX Prime 2015, Day Two

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Tumblestone
Tumblestone

We had no troubles getting ourselves together for Day Two, and we had a delightful time traipsing through the show with Friend of the Hole–and invaluable assistant–Tom. Here’s our report:

  • Queering Up Misconceptions: LGBT Game Industry Life
    We started the day at this panel, which was a rollicking good time—and largely quite optimistic. Five industry pros talked about their experiences and what they want to see going forward, and it was gratifying to hear that most of them had no problem coming out at work. One, Hangry Studio‘s Chris Wright, was certain that he had outed himself to coworkers with a shirtless Hayden Christensen pic on his desktop, but was later told “I just thought you were really into Star Wars!” Moderator Gordon Bellamy kept it grounded and summed up the vibe with the line “Being allowed to exist is super powerful.” Good stuff!
  • Mech Deck
    Another sweet tabletop title at the Indie Megabooth, this one involved mech construction using modular mech parts that give players various weapons, capabilities, etc. It’s played on an expandable hex map and uses a card-based system to handle combat and other interactions. They’re launching a Kickstarter next month and we are sure to follow up then.
  • Tabletop Smarts
    Patrick, the big brain behind Mech Deck, while explaining his development process, blew our minds when he told us about the Boston Game Makers Guild. This meetup group includes a bunch of local tabletop game devs who playtest each other’s games and then vote them up to get additional attention by the group as a whole. Playtesting, networking, support—it sounds like a brilliant way for game makers to hone their craft and get their ideas to market. If this isn’t happening in Seattle, let’s make it happen.
  • PAX 10: Dark Echo
    The PAX 10 had a few winners this year (though of course they’re ALL winners), and we have some serious affection for Dark Echo, a sweet survival game featuring a nifty visual sonar system. It rewards experimentation and is really easy to pick up—Rob, who is terrible with new games, was happily evading obstacles in seconds. It was developed as part of Ludum Dare and is available on Steam, iOS, and Android.
  • PAX 10: Ninja Tag
    This title is pure PAX 10 gold–a tiny, well-executed game by an underdog developer who learned to code while creating it as his thesis project. (That would be Leandro Ribeiro, a Brazilian economist going to school at the NYU Game Center.) Ninja Tag is a 2D, very fast-paced four-player death match between disappearing-reappearing-backstabbing ninjas armed with swords and crossbows (perfect for much animated giffery). It’s a natural party game, with a constant backdrop of woots, groans, and profanity. You might need to play it a few times to master the controls and the rhythm, but it’s definitely worth it–and super fun if you’re lucky enough to play with the same group for several rounds, so you can develop mature vendettas.
  • PAX 10: Tumblestone
    Tumblestone is a tense-but-fun cross between a bubble-shooter and competitive Tetris. You compete against up to three other players, racing to deplete your tiles by matching three tiles of the same color at a time–but you must also solve the puzzle of which colors to match first before the others do the same. It’s easy to learn, fast-paced, and good fun. See the demo here. You can also catch it in the Indie Megabooth!
  • PAX 10: From Light
    This sweet-weird platformer gives Ninja Tag a run for its money for PAX 10 underdog goodness: it was an Intermediate Game Design project by a small pack of USC Gaming Design sophomores and juniors, with help from friends at the Berkeley College of Music for the sound. It’s hard to describe the gameplay adequately–watch the video below–but it involves a clever puzzle dynamic that mimics long streaks of starlight in long-exposure photography. (The cute conceit of the game is that you’re guiding a fallen star back to the moon.) The art in the demo is still primitive, but they’ve posted some lovely art in the booth (finished just last week!) that gives you a better idea of how the final game will look.
  • AbleGamers
    We got to meet the nice folks at the AbleGamers Foundation up on level 6 today. You should definitely say hi: they have candy. They also have a really cool and worthwhile cause, helping gamers with disabilities get access to often expensive assistive technologies to help them play. If you’re such a gamer–or a caregiver, or an interested dev–you should get in touch. Also, slight spoiler: go to their panel Sunday at 9pm to learn about a new program they’re announcing, which will get gamers with disabilities involved interning with developers.
  • Don’t Starve: Shipwrecked 
    What caught our eye about Don’t Starve: Shipwrecked is its delightful Tim Burton-esque, sketchy art style. The gameplay looks like lotsa fun too, though we’re not familiar with the original Don’t Starve. Check out the trailer for the original here to get an idea of the style and gameplay. Here’s the teaser for Shipwrecked–it’s just a quicky promo.
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PAX Prime 2015, Day One

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Eldrazi means business.
Eldrazi means business.

Rob woke up with a migraine and Mary couldn’t make it ’til the end of the show (stupid day job), but we still managed to take in lots of great PAX action, starting with the amazing Eldrazi sculpture outside the Magic show in the Annex (see above). Here’s our report:

  • Trivia Night
    We kicked off this year’s PAX in a big way by cohosting Nerd Trivia Night at Raygun Lounge. The house was packed, and while we suffered some unfortunate tech issues, our cohost Andrew of A Podcast [,] For All Intents and Purposes handled everything with grace and charm. Mary’s “Shitty Vampire Things” category was a big hit, and the winners were super-stoked thanks to our extremely generous prize donors:

    • Pelgrane Press gave a 13th Age core rulebook, Eyes of the Stone Thief mega-adventure, and a super-sweet icon die spinner ring. Check them out in Room 206—they’ve got tons of cool stuff going on.
    • Wargaming.Net gave two delightful (and practical) prize bags containing World of Tanks gaming mice, minifigs, and more. It is almost literally impossible to miss their huge presence in the main expo hall, so make sure to check them out when you see them.
  • Paperback
    This stopped us cold in the Indie Megabooth tabletop zone. A small, handwritten sign read “Scrabble + Dominion = Paperback.” WHAA? We watched a bit of a demo and are going to try to play it sometime over the weekend. Like Dominion, you start with a small deck of cards, each of which has a letter (sometimes two) and many of which have special rules attached. On your turn, you use your cards to form a word and score points to buy new cards for your deck. Victory points come in the form of novels you help write, which are added to your deck just like in Dominion. There are some nifty complications that look like they could give this game some real legs.
  • Antihero
    We have a friend who runs a landscaping business, and his advice for picking a landscaper is to choose the one with the best-looking business cards. His reasoning was that appealing design was a relatively reliable indicator for just generally Caring About Things, and–fair or not–it’s not a bad way to apportion your attention on the showfloor at PAX. That’s a long way of saying that Antihero grabbed us first with its cartoony good looks (see below!), and then likewise proved to have equally satisfying gameplay–fun, fast, quirky, and scratching many of the same itches as games that inspired it, like the beloved Civ series and seminal mobile game Hero Academy. You play a Victorian-era skuldugger, managing a thieves’ guild that’s trying to 4X its way through a mist-shrouded city. Play is turn-based (with a 1P campaign and asynchronous multiplayer), and involves juggling several-but-not-too-many resources, upgrade trees, and menacingly cute units like thugs and urchins. Like! And good news: it’s been Greenlit.
  • I Heart PAX
    Rob here. I just need to break in on the journamalism to express my deep, sincere affection for PAX culture. My generation was ruined by degenerate irony, so it can be hard for me to feel all the feels I should be feeling, but I love seeing all the young nerds unburdened by my cultural baggage. They are who they are and they love who they are, and I love them for it. That goes double for all the folks who have been (and, sadly, continue to be) underrepresented and/or exploited by nerd culture over the years.
  • Cards Against Humanity
    We don’t have too much to say about this party game that hasn’t already been said—but their marketing this year is brill. They’re selling oversized popsicles with small packs of cards inside. They look yummy (we found the truck just as they were closing shop) and are great at provoking curiosity in onlookers. Great job, marketing team!
  • Brigador
    If you like isometric games where mechs, tanks, and other belligerent vehicles destroy everything in sight using multiple weapons and smashy-smashy physical attacks, then check out Brigador. The WASD/mouse controls can take some acclimatization (especially with a mech), but it’s got a nice Crush, Crumble, Chomp vibe with its destructible environment and pell-mell attackers.
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Episode 40 – Interview with Jonathan Tweet

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Grandmother Fish
Grandmother Fish

We spoke with author and game designer Jonathan Tweet about his new book Grandmother Fish, which tells the story of evolution for pre-K kids. We also delved into his storied history as a game designer and got some terrific inside stories from his super-smart daughter Tessa.

LINKS

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Nerd rockers Chamber Band at Raygun Lounge tonight

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Chamber Band
Oh, knock it off, you guys. Cute is so 2013.

Are you ready to rock and roll initiative? Head over to Raygun Lounge tonight at 7pm for a performance by super-nerds Chamber Band. They’re supporting their new album Deities, which is full of delightful indie pop songs set in a D&D world. Titles include “Lawful Neutral,” “Shapeshifter,” and “Yeenoghu.” (They also do Hunger Games songs, but we haven’t heard ’em yet.) It should be a fun, sweet show–seriously, check out some of their songs–and Raygun has an excellent assortment of beverages for fans of all ages.

Oh, and a little nerd told us that Aaron Douglas (the Chief from Battlestar Galactica) might show up “to hear the Adama Pop that they invented in his honor.” But this sad Galacticon news makes us wonder if it could be true. There is only one way to find out, people.

Chamber Band at Raygun Lounge (501 E Pine), Friday, 7/31/15, 7pm. All ages.

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This Giant Has Two Heads

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Mary and I played our first Magic tournament over the weekend–a Magic Origins prerelease hosted by Green Lake Games and using the beloved Two-Headed Giant format. Team play is terrific for less confident or socially anxious players, which nails the Nerdhole house style*. We had a great time–too great to remember to take pics, sadly.

It was, as Mary feared, pretty lopsided on the sausage end of the spectrum, but all our opponents were perfectly reasonable, charming, and friendly. Take that, stereotypes! Mary’s deck went all-in on elves with a bunch of neato-scary black and green, while I slapped together a blue and white deck that I hoped could last long enough to throw down some flying bruisers in the endgame. We…didn’t do so well. We did win one of our four games, but that wasn’t enough to score a prize. It was enough to bolster our confidence, though, and I reckon we’ll likely be playing more of these in the future. Go Team Nerdhole!

Big thanks to Friends of the Hole Brian, who organized our outing and provided much-needed moral support, and Mike, who offered cunning strategic advice. They rocked two victories–but were gracious enough not to remind us that they had basically played the same decks as us while they opened their prize boosters.

* Paul may actually be a smooth criminal on the tourney floor, for all I know. Time will tell.

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